You’d think, wouldn’t you, that a panel discussing whether careers can be made from blogging or whether Generation Y are living in a fantasy world, that the panel might have bothered to actually read a blog? Or at least, not admit that they hadn’t.
I’ve just returned from said debate at the Hospital Club in Covent Garden. I knew it would be bad, but even I didn’t take into account just HOW bad it would be.
The two bloggers on the panel were Danielle Peazer (Able Lane) and Zoe Griffin from LiveLikeAVIP (chosen, apparently, because ‘they have lots of followers’). The others on the panel were Katie Hopkins and journalist, Tanya Gold and the event was compered by Katie Glass.
Similar to this
The supposed premise of the debate was to discuss whether bloggers and vloggers can make money on line or are our dreams of ‘working from a laptop by a pool’ a fantasy. Excuse me while I just call my pool boy to bring me a cocktail. You don’t have one? Oh. Clearly you aren’t a blogger.
It was just a nonsense, with the two bloggers relentlessly grilled about the money aspect (‘so, basically you’re PRs?’) so it became far too much of a focus. For some bloggers, it IS all about the money – for the vast majority, it’s about so much more than that. So, I just kind of listened while the insanity of asking a beauty blogger why she wasn’t blogging about the election and more important things than that particular area of interest, and it became more and more apparent that the panel had done absolutely no research whatsoever. They didn’t understand blogging or vlogging on even the most basic level. Talk about lazy.
The panel were most interested in the £££’s first of all and second concerned themselves with the point that fashion and beauty is vacuous. When it came to question time, I did make the point that Katie Hopkins has made her opinions clear about the unemployed and wasn’t it better than young people were trying to take charge of their own destiny in a job market that’s very difficult. She did take the point. However, I also said that vlogging and blogging is a skill builder – they had no clue about the technical aspect, the need to understand SEO, code, to be able to work across multiple channels, to operate a camera and edit pictures, to be able to edit videos – all the multiple behind the scenes work that goes on. They just hadn’t thought it through. That there might be a bit more to it that getting paid for talking about lipstick with fairylights and cupcakes.
The audience were just as scary in their anti-blogger bias – one vlogger suggested that blogging and vlogging is a middle class privelege (because people’s parents buy them cameras, apparently) and that somehow it wasn’t quite fair if that had been the case. Zoe quit her job to start her blog, but that’s a very unusual way to do things – it’s not the norm, but he had an issue that that also might not be fair because he couldn’t afford to take time off his job. Usually, bloggers and vloggers juggle a full time job and then make the switch – not the other way round.
As you’d expect, there was concern ‘for the written word’ and then we got into the whole grammar and spelling thing. I think we only need to look to the Guardian to know that poor spelling isn’t the preserve of blogs.
They neglected to mention that fashion and beauty have been the mainstay of the UK magazine industry long before blogs existed, and yet somehow blogs on the subject were ‘vapour’. They are subjects that keep plenty of journalists employed, thanks very much.
This debate really was the opportunity to properly look at how blogs and vlogs have changed the landscape – Katie thinks they’ll be gone in 5 years – Tanya just didn’t really know anything at all, other than a friend of hers was really shocked not be offered any payment from Mumsnet. Welcome then, Tanya, to the world of blogging where any money is hard fought for for the majority of us.
They looked only at the surface, didn’t bother to look at any wider issues (such as the economy boost that beauty and fashion bloggers have brought to the industry) and they couldn’t be arsed to consider blogging and vlogging a valid use of time and words. Or even grasp the really simple fact that blogs generally focus on on one or two topics only (usually the topic that the blogger is interested enough in to create a site to talk about it) because otherwise you’d never ask why experts in that field weren’t discussing the general election. Oh. My. God.
They also made some comment (Katie, I think), that if you were young and pretty you had a better chance at it (hello… not young and not pretty here, doing quite a good job of things!) bringing it down a notch even further. There was an air of superiority over bloggers and vloggers; borne of absolute ignorance and not helped by – sorry, I’ve got to say it – the two bloggers on the panel being more focussed than most on money.
For so many bloggers, blogging is just a sheer joy – it’s not a career and nor do they want it to be. It’s an outlet for creativity and thoughts (so why the quality of the written world is relevant, I don’t know – it’s YOUR blog, do it as you please) for individuals. Every blogger knows that they can’t all be Zoella (who, naturally came up as an example of ‘vapour’, with our vlogger friend making sure the whole room knew that ‘she didn’t get there on her own – she has a whole management team’, neglecting to realise that she didn’t have one when she started and she did very, very well before she even considered a management team) and further, not every blogger has that agenda. Nor does every vlogger.
The Hospital Club’s debate was poorly researched, a shambles of a debate and really just ugly to listen to. I left before it was over. I will just add in one last point, that every single journalist always raises about bloggers – ‘they’re not journalists’. Yeah, we know that. It’s okay. But we’re doing just fine, talking with people like us who want to talk to us as much as we want to talk to them. And there’s bloody millions of them!
Transparency Disclosure
All products are sent to me as samples from brands and agencies unless otherwise stated. Affiliate links may be used. Posts are not affiliate driven.
41 comments
How ludicrous! Online content has been going for years sharing reviews etc. I’ve been a member of makeupalley for 15 years discussing and reviewing beauty and I don’t see that site or others like them are going anywhere soon.
And so say all of us! So true. My day job (that I get paid for) is the one I blog about. I love both, only one makes me any money.
Wow, I am not even sure I can form a response to this post right now. I feel so outraged for you (and all bloggers in general right now) honestly. I would have had a hard time biting my tongue in the same situation. Clearly those idiots haven’t a clue how much heart and soul the majority of us bloggers (not just us VAPID beauty bloggers;) ) pour into our blogs. I as much time caring for my blog as I do my kids. I’m really glad you shared this with us Jane. I SO hope things change, and bloggers get the respect they deserve.
They don’t own blogs so they don’t know how much hardwork goes into it. Maybe they should try setting up their own blog and then see how easy it is….
Blogging is so much than just earning money.. It puts you in a position to do things that you never thought of doing. It takes you out of your comfort zone, builds yours confidence, self esteem and at the same time allows you to develop new skills like editing and photography. Not everyone has a management team and they are doing pretty well juggling all aspects of the blogging side.
It’s easy to point fingers at others. Sometimes they should try to fit into somebody’s shoes and see how difficult it is
I just adore ignorance! It’s so trendy! Ignorance is the new black! No seriously. All this talk about making money and all the silly competition has turned me off blogging. With a full time job and a child I found no joy in blogging any more. All people cared about was my followers and not my content. Thank you for writing about this and sharing your opinions. You are spot on!
Really loved reading this Jane so horrible to hear that people will openly slate blogging without knowing the first thing about it when people like yourself exist in the world! Every internship and job interview that I’ve mentioned my blog in the interviewer has been really impressed and intrigued and it was only through blogging that I discovered a genuine passion for photography and learned how to take pictures and use social media and the list really is endless. It’s also made me a generally happier person because it’s such a boost in my confidence knowing that a little site I created from nothing has almost 300 people reading a day (not a huge number but I’m chuffed!). Also how can katie Hopkins slate blogs when she’s made a career out of Twitter trolling!? Haha!
Uff, heavy. I am not a blogger, but can see how you feel. After articles about millions made by the blondsalad blog people believe that you guys earn a lot. I know that it is not the case since if it was, everyone would do it, including me (I checked the numbers before 🙂 Forget about this bullshit, your narrow subjects find your narrow targets and they know your motivation and that you are good. Others don’t really matter since they are not your target anyway.
Agree about driving the category growth – I bought much more makeup after reading the blogs within the last 12 months than in the previous 12 years of exhaustive reading of female magazines. I guess because reviews are more detailed and closer to my real life looks than “professional makeup art” printed in magazines. Exactly for this reason I am trying to stop reading beauty blogs altogether since I waste too much money on makeup and too much time on reading. So far I failed, as you can see 🙂 At the same time in the areas that interest me less (fashion, workouts, photography) I did not get into reading blogs. So I think they drive extra purchases only when the initial affinity for the topic already exists and thus drives interest in the blogs in the first place.
I love quite many bloggers and know their faces better than mine. I realize blogging is a hard work and hope they get at least some benefits from doing it, beyond our admiration and appreciation. It would be unfair otherwise, makeup for reviews is not cheap to buy. I would not do it myself though, because it is too time consuming (I am afraid to waste my life), it is too competitive (too many great blogs exist already) and because it will drive me into even higher spending on the beauty. Beauty is addictive and I think starting a blog would bring me even further away from healthy and balanced relationship with material staff, which makeup is. I know many bloggers call themselves makeup addicts, this is the only thing that I can complain about in blogs because I see a tiny bit of propaganda of that unbalanced approach and justifying unreasonable purchases as a “hobby”. I don’t think any blogger has a chance to use the products they review more than 1-3 times because then its time for a new product. Addictive consumption of anything is not healthy, so I have a bit of a moral problem with blogging concept overall. Though, the same is true for other media, so it is not unique 🙂
From what you’ve said it sounds as if a lot of the ignorance there was driven by fear & jealously.
It’s all very easy to attack a young girl who’s made a fortune out of this industry & I can’t say I’ve ever read her blog (I’m too old) but what’s the fact that she has a management team got to do with it?! If a singer becomes successful & hires a manager, PR & accountant does this mean they’re no longer a good or credible talent? What a crock of shit, quite frankly…
I’ve been fanatical about beauty since I was a kid but could never dream of producing a blog – contemplating the sheer amount of work that goes into it makes me feel queasy. So I, for one, am hugely thankful to bloggers like you, Jane, that provide a constant source of entertainment & information for us beauty lovers & long may you continue!
I’m just doing this for my own personal satisfaction and no one can take that away from me!
Christ on a cracker. THANK YOU for bringing up the skill building aspect of it. I started out in low-level web dev and worked my way into social media by teaching myself. I taught myself by blogging! At that point even my co-workers at a marketing firm knew f-all about social media because it was still pretty new. I wouldn’t be a manager at a top notch agency if I hadnt started blogging.
I’m so glad you shared this story Alyson! This is what I would love to get from blogging, new skills that can help me start a career 🙂
That event was flawed from the moment someone thought that inviting Katie Hokins would be a great idea.
It sounds like a poor excuse for a ‘debate’ and I think to have people leading the discussion who hadn’t got the first clue about what it was they were arguing against is just embarrassing. I admire you for biting your tongue – I’m not sure I could’ve done the same thing!
This was a great read. I’d love for the panelists to read this and perhaps feel a little silly.
The skill-building is such an important aspect of blogging and vlogging! I’m glad you mentioned it. I love that with blogging, people are able to take charge of their careers and build something of their own, because as you noted about Zoella, every blogger starts out on their own building something for themselves. Gleam didn’t see Zoe on the street and think ‘hey you’d make a good YouTuber’ and create it all for her! She got there on her own merit.
Great write up. I’m sad that it had to be written, but it was a good read.
Even if blogs/vlogs were to die out in the next 5 years (which we highly doubt), bloggers; who have been pro-active and intuitive enough to grow their own brand whilst developing key marketing/social media skills, will adapt and continue to thrive. It’s the likes of narrow-minded people like Katie who should be concerned about their careers!
If they want to talk about vapid maybe they should pick up a beauty magazine run by one of those so-called superior journalists. Now those are vapid! Just a lot of pretty pictures and press releases with no actual content or insight. I love beauty blogs because they are real people, who put down their own thoughts in their reviews and give time and focus to when things do or don’t work rather than just producing a puff piece to get ad agency money.
This discussion sounds a bit like the print vs new media argument. I’ve sat in a newsroom with a traditional print journalist who told me that if I didn’t have a rolodex with hundreds of contacts (it had to be a rolodex) I would never make it in journalism.
If you aren’t in the digital world you just don’t understand it; blogs are an important and trusted source of information for the millennials and other generations who have embraced digital. And why not embrace digital, I can access educational courses from the top universities while sitting on my sofa at home – how awesome is that!
The world will more and more belong to digital and blogs and social. Thankfully people like Katie will become irrelevant. Just don’t feed the trolls.
Rant over : )
I’m really glad I found your blog. I subscribe to a LOT of beauty blogs for reviews and makeup inspiration but yours is one of the few I know will give me an honest perspective and not just be a shill for whatever company has sent them a freebie. I love your brutally honest writing style!
As for why Katie Hopkins was on this panel in the first place – I missed her transformation from Apprentice reject to professional TV gob but it’s insulting to the audience (let alone the blogging world) to present a panel of people who don’t know what the hell they’re on about.
I was formulating my response to your post whilst scrolling down through the messages……………..Sophie has said exactly what I wanted to say. Thank you!!
Three points come to mind:
1. What does Katie Hopkins have to do with blogging. Did the organisers really think a lively and interesting debate wouldn’t be possible without getting in someone who has nothing to do with the blogging world but who has made a career out of spouting controversial comments about anything under the sun?
2. I get very fed up with this lefty attitude that just because some people can’t afford something (e.g. a decent computer/camera to blog/vlog with, a premium mascara, a bowl of cereal from a cereal cafe) it is somehow “unfair” that anyone should do or have it. Sali Hughes in the Guardian gets this sort of comment pretty much every week.
3. It is absolutely correct that most if not all of the big bloggers created and ran their sites themselves before signing up with a management team, and of course it makes sense to do so once a blog reaches a certain level of subscribers etc. My only issue with this is that you soon notice that all of the bloggers who are with a certain management all start covering the same events, the same products, bigging each other up etc and so integrity has to be called in to question. Do you really love the Body Shop’s new shampoo or have Gleam struck a nice deal with them to get coverage across their stable of bloggers?
To be fair to Katie, compared to Tanya, she was far more knowledgeable although I couldn’t detect any further knowledge than Zoella! But it was more than Tanya could offer up. I would lay the blame very firmly on the debate organiser who couldn’t be bothered to search for more expert knowledge and went for a cheap and lazy hit by asking two women, known for strong opinion. It’s a good example of how your own self importance leads you to believe that people just want to hear anything you say, regardless of your knowledge on the subject.
Well, to me it sounds like, only real academics or people with certain connections and background should have a successful life. No matter which background bloggers and vloggers come from, they have found a way to do things they enjoy, make others happy, keep other and themselves entertained…. Most of them show a friendly gesture to anyone, some in our society can learn from this, especially to show a more positive attitude. Of course it also is a way to make money, some of them a lot but what’s wrong with that?
Oh and by the way, I sometimes dream to have or live a life like the bloggers and vloggers, from the point from what comes over to me; but I don’t, it’s my choice but I’m happy with it and I am happy if others are successful knowing they don’t do any harm to others and keep us entertained 😉
It’s funny how people always say ‘they’re not journalists’… nope we’re not. But who does someone turn to when they think of buying something? An article that a journalist has written in a magazine or a review on a blog? I think we all know the answer to that…
http://www.livinglifeindocs.com
I feel very uncomfortable commenting on something that I neither attended nor can watch for myself via a stream. I can’t find any reporting on this whatsoever either.
I love to read your writing on the relationship between journalism and blogs and your criticism of the discourse around blogging but this really does feel like slagging off very specific people and that always brings out real nastiness in the comments:
“those idiots haven’t a clue ”
“I just adore ignorance!”
“Also how can katie Hopkins slate blogs when she’s made a career out of Twitter trolling!? Haha!”
“From what you’ve said it sounds as if a lot of the ignorance there was driven by fear & jealously.” (I’m sorry, I can’t : the jealousy defence? Really?We’ve reached that level already?)
“people leading the discussion who hadn’t got the first clue”
“If they want to talk about vapid maybe they should pick up a beauty magazine run by one of those so-called superior journalists. Now those are vapid!”
Those comments are little more than schoolyard behavior.
I think people feel very strongly about it – and the reporting is the post, I suppose. It’s accurate. There are feeds that you can look at that sum things up also such as @firstedtalks on Twitter. It was actually being filmed so it might pop up somewhere for you to watch.
Twitter turns any debate into a slogan-based shitstorm and most of the feed consists of Katie Hopkins being as intentionally offensive as always with people as outraged by them as always.
Even if I were to accept that this is accurate reporting, all I would see were two sides who only want to talk about how shit/shallow/stupid/ignorant/mean/vapid the other side is.
I can assure you this report is accurate – but you’re probably right: two angry sides who don’t understand each other.
I don’t feel my comment was in any way school yard. I’m entitled to an opinion & didn’t attack anyone.
I’d suggest that leaving a comment that in no way referenced any of your own opinion on the topic at hand & yet attacked everyone else’s thoughts, is rather more childish.
Well I completely stand by my opinion that fashion magazines are vapid and beauty blogs are (for the most part) better.
I see comments like this a lot (normally on Sali Hughs threads on the Guardian) that when women are upset, someone wades in to tell them being angry is childish or juvenile. These comments serve to try to invalidate the feelings of the those who are angry and it needs to stop.
We are allowed to complain, to be angry and to express that anger. And yes, pointing out hypocrisies like Katie Hopkins being a well known professional troll is a valid point. Her invite to the panel was obviously to create controversy since that’s what she’s known for.
You can call my comment schoolyard behavior if you want, but I call it knowing my own mind.
Roz, you’ve hit the nail on the head re Katie – but it was interesting to note that while she was of course being ‘Katie’, she did have the more knowledge about blogs and vlogs than the other panelist and the debate chair. I think we all have every right to be angry – I certainly was furious that blogging and vlogging was reduced to that by people who just clearly hadn’t had the courtesy to even do the most basic research. Even I had researched Katie’s views on the unemployed or anything she had said around the subject before I even went. It’s easy to take the morally superior high road, by castigating others for their view, but when something matters, feelings will be mixed and intense.
Wow generation Y have so many things to be depressed about, it’s so hard getting a job when they are all asking for experience, and skilled jobs are in short supply! If anybody wants to start a blog to not only show case there knowledge and skills but learn new ones and gain experience working with other brands and blogs, how can that be seen as anything other than positive? I am a graduate working in a call centre and quiet frankly it’s boring and I don’t feel challenged. Doing a blog would be a great career option for me, but I’m not unrealistic. If anything I want something that will allow me to show the world my skills, if analysing beauty products, marketing my blog, communicating with brands can help me get a more skilled job then I will do it. If I can get paid for doing it, surely an employer would be impressed. This debate just makes the government look stupid, they don’t care about the problems facing young people because chances are it will mean they have to give up something. Lets face extra tax on second houses would give young people a great way to get on the property ladder, but what MP would vote for that when they make so much money from renting them?
Sorry about the rant, but thank you for sharing 🙂
http://katsbeautytales.blogspot.co.uk/
I started a blog a few months ago and I honestly think that if I were in it for the money, there are so many easier ways to do it. Blogging takes time and patience, and a lot of that if you want to make it successful enough so that maybe you can earn from it. A few years back I considered a career in journalism and now I’ve decided to follow a different route I’m able to incorporate that love for writing I once had in a productive way as one of my hobbies. Blogging is a community that few people outside of it understand, and I genuinely think the power and momentum it’s creating within the beauty and fashion industries scares a lot of people. I think it was disrespectful to speak like this especially when it’s someone’s career and maybe a little research would have left them looking a little less stupid!
Well I look forward to getting your Blog every morning, it’s my Go To before I put my head down to work. I don’t have a blog, don’t want one either, but admire anyone that can write and inspire in any way. Well done you!
thank you so much Laura!
Wow, just thinking about that debate makes my blood boil. As a PR who works with small brands I am intensely grateful that blogs and vlogs exist in the way that they do, giving their honest unbiased opinion on a daily basis. Making any kind of noise in the crowed media landscape is a really hard job when you don’t have big budgets behind you but blogs and vlogs are answerable to no-one but themselves giving them the freedom to write about what they like, when they like………. and there are many of us out there who are intensely grateful for that! Keep up the good work!!
what utter nonsense! excellent blog post! I have recently come back to blogging because i missed it so much.. simply because it was somewhere i felt i belong as part of the online beauty blogging family… i for sure am not earning money for this!
Spot on. While I say it is a relief to hear that this ignorance happens not only in my country but everywhere else. People just say things just to have a say even if they don’t know anything about it. I myself am doing well with my blog and well my blog is not that shitty( I think) coz I have steady loyal readers and advertisers that keeps me going. I would not be blogging this long had it not been rewarding for me. So ot is a duty and my pleasure to try to write not crappy stuff although I think my grammar needs a little work and sometimes my photos are bad. But hey, a blog is a one man show (except for a group blog) compared to a magazine that has writers, photographers, proof readers, graphic artist, layout artist and editors to polish an article.
As for product/makeup review I read on a comment about overspending on stuff we don’t really need or use only once or twice. In my case I shop less since my blog got noticed as brands would send over products or give put the products on the press kit they give out to bloggers/media they invite to their events or product launch.
Great article! So sad that this actually had to be written though.
Just came across your post and I hate this kind of chat. I know this blog post is over two years old but I feel like still, these kind of debates and thoughts are out there. I’ve been a blogger for over six years now and it’s getting harder to make money out of it as it’s such an over saturated industry. I think it’s ridiculous when people target bloggers in a mean way as it’s just the way of the media now and yes it’s happening, and yes people are finding success with it. Why all the negativity?!